In this episode of the Physio Insights podcast, Nicole Sabes shares her journey as a physical therapist and runner, detailing her experiences with injuries and how they shaped her career. She discusses the importance of community in physical therapy, particularly within the running community in San Francisco, and how she has built partnerships with local running clubs. Nicole emphasizes the need for strength training in rehabilitation and the development of her own strength training program for runners, highlighting the significance of objective data in measuring progress. She also offers valuable advice for physical therapists looking to innovate and connect with their communities.
Key Notes
Running alone isn’t enough. Many runners lack the strength needed to support high mileage, which can increase injury risk and limit performance.
Strength training is a missing link in many rehab programs. Athletes are often discharged once pain improves, even though they may not be fully prepared for performance demands.
Community is a powerful driver of growth. Partnering with local run clubs helped build trust, expand reach, and create a strong referral network.
Objective data increases athlete buy-in. Strength testing, plyometrics, and gait analysis helped runners see measurable progress and stay consistent.
Group training can bridge the rehab-to-performance gap. Small group strength programs allow PTs to deliver individualized care while building accountability and community.
Clinicians should not undervalue their expertise. Specialized programs outside traditional insurance models can deliver greater value for athletes and sustainable income for clinicians.
Full Audio Transcript
Jimmy: Welcome to the Physio Insights podcast presented by Runeasi. I'll be your host, Doctor. Jimmy Picard. I'm a physical therapist, running coach, and team member here at Runeasi. On this show, we have real conversations with leading experts, digging into how we recover from injuries, train smarter, and use data to better guide care. Whether you're a clinician, coach, or an athlete, we're here to explore what really matters in rehab and performance. Let's dive in. Jimmy: All right, Nicole. Welcome to the Physio Insights podcast. How's your day going? Nicole: It's going great. We got blue skies over here, so it's all good. Jimmy: Well, so I came across your Instagram and the company you work for through one of my colleagues here at Runeasi, and he put us in touch, and I thought you'd be a great guest to have on the podcast. So to get things started, do you mind just sharing with the audience a little bit about yourself? Tell us where you are, where you went to school, how you got into physical therapy. Nicole: Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for having me. So my name is Nicole Sabes, and I'm a runner and a physical therapist. And I'm currently the director of Runeo Physical Therapy in San Francisco. So I've been with the company just over six years now. A little background about myself. I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up playing soccer, field hockey, softball, and I ran track. I got a scholarship to run the 800 meters at UC Santa Barbara where we had a a very high mileage, one size fits all kind of approach to training. And so, unfortunately, I ended up with three stress fractures in two years, and I I didn't get a chance to really race, throughout my college career, but it did solidify my love for physiology and kinesiology and kinda learning about injuries and my path towards physical therapy. So I ended up going to grad school at Mount Saint Mary's University in Los Angeles. And, you know, I always knew I wanted to work with runners and athletes in some capacity, but it wasn't really until I took on the role in San Francisco that I was really able to move in that direction. So my my first day in San Francisco was the same day the shelter in place was put in effect. And so, literally, I come in for my onboarding. I meet with our owner, and then we sent everyone home. And it ended up being a a blessing in disguise in that it really gave me the opportunity to rebuild the clinic and how I wanted it to be fresh perspective. And so yeah. So, you know, early in 2020, I had a patient who mentioned that her boyfriend did triathlons with some of his friends and he was part of a club. And I really just casually mentioned like, hey. We're we're kinda slow right now. If you would be interested in having me do some sort of injury prevention workshop for for your boyfriend and his friends, I'd be more than happy to to put something together. And she emailed back a couple weeks later and said they'd be interested. And then it turned out that this, like, little friend group was actually a giant triathlon club called Golden Gate Triathlon Club. That's a huge staple in San Francisco. And I think our first Zoom workshop with them had just about a 100 people join. And my coworkers and I at the time put together these, like, workshop series of different injury prevention kinda modules. And it was so much fun and just a different way to get out in the community that that I'd never done before. Then you're like, okay. Now the run director is coming to the clinic and, you know, all these teammates are coming in at the same time and they all kinda know each other. And so despite being in a bigger city, know, it created this real community for us. And, you know, the then the run director is my patient and is like, come out to track practice. So then I started joining and then you meet more people. And it's just been really fun to to grow that partnership. And we've been official sponsors for the team for over six years now. And and what's been really fun is that that same same model, I was able to apply to different running groups throughout San Francisco. And so San Francisco, I think, has one of my pa once sent me a Reddit page of how many run clubs are in San Francisco. I think there's 26 different run clubs, and there's probably even more now. But this, like, Reddit page had, okay, what day do they meet on? What's the vibe of each run club? So it's a really special community in San Francisco where really any day of the week, you could find a group of people to run with. So yeah. So now I have kinda like my whole smorgasbord of different run groups that I like to partner with, but also run with whenever I get a chance. And yeah, it's been it's been great to help kinda build a community and work with runners and Yeah. Jimmy: So you yeah. This idea of community is I think something we'll keep coming back to during this this conversation. But if we back up to more like your growing up in college where you suffered these stress fractures, did that, how did that affect your trajectory as like becoming, to becoming a physical therapist? Was that, did that have an impact? Was? Nicole: Yeah. I think it definitely had an impact. I I always liked physiology and kinesiology and but I think my sophomore year, you know, it's like you're in the training room so much and you're kinda doing all this reading of how do you help yourself through all these things. And, you know, the trainer would give every single runner clamshells. And I would do my clamshells religiously, and I was not getting better. And, you know, the same injury would pop up, then I would go in before practice, do my ultrasound. Then I'd go in, do my clamshells, go for my run, come back, do my ice bath, and my electrical stimulation. And for some reason, I kept getting injured over and over again. So so, you know, it's like you kinda start diving in more and more. And well, I think we'll touch on this later, but we didn't do any strength training in our program until my, I think, my junior year. They finally added kinda some strength stuff. But I remember going into the weight room the first time, and I I could not do a side plank with hip abduction. And I'm trying to run, like, 40 plus miles a week. And I I didn't put it together at the time, like, oh, this would be something I should definitely be able to do. And, yeah, it just goes to show running alone does not build strength. Jimmy: Yeah. It's a question I get often is like, yeah, how do you how do you like establish yourself as like a running PT? It sounds like you you did a really good job there. Nicole: I think asking questions is kinda like my go to. So, you know, it's like, I think it's interesting to learn about injuries, but I think I I would really just be asking my patients what they thought would be helpful. And I think that really helped drive, like, oh, we wanna learn about this. And I'm like, okay. Great. I'll put together a workshop and let's make it happen. And I think the other thing is, like, Marina Run Club is a really big club we work with here. And the gal that started it, she put QR codes across the city and or the marina and about getting people involved with it. And I just sent her a message on Instagram saying, hey. I'm a PT. I work with a lot of runners. I would love to put something together for you guys at some point. And we've been partners with them for probably about three years now, and they're they're an extra great group we love working with. And Jimmy: So you you you almost make it sound too easy. Was there any like traction here? Or sorry. Like, was there any hiccups along the way? Or like when you asked to do these workshops, like people were just receptive to it? Nicole: I think that I kinda went into it. Like I, with the approach of, like, this is our way of one educating and giving back to the community. This this is something I'm doing for free, and I know it's like marketing for the clinic. But I also feel really passionate about we are, as physical therapists, the movement experts, and we have a lot of great information that we can educate the community about, and there's so much misinformation online. So part of it, I think I feel really passionate about it. And so you're kinda like relaying that to the person. Jimmy: Do you feel like maybe you're you're also like subconsciously wishing you had that information? Nicole: Percent. Yes. 100%. I think that's a great point. And, yeah, I work with some high school kids who I know they're coached actually through Marina Run Club, and he's kinda put me in touch with their team. And I love having phone calls with the high school cross country teams because there's I didn't know there's so much I didn't know, And I think it would have been valuable to know a lot younger. And I didn't have a resource of or accessibility to find have a PT that worked with runners that could kinda give me information and guide me. Jimmy: Did you ever feel any like impostor syndrome doing like, because you're kinda like stepping outside of like traditional PT a little bit there. Yeah. How did you yeah. Was there any discomfort doing that? Or Nicole: You know, that's that's a good question. I think when I was a new grad and out of school, I worked at another clinic and I wasn't running or racing at that. I was running but I wasn't racing. Ever since I started, I started running again more consistently in 2020 because of the Golden Gate Tri Club community and going out to track practice. And then every week, they're like, oh, what's your next race? And, you know, you consistently go and you get better and then you start racing again. And so I think once I started racing again and training again, then it gave me a lot more confidence to not feel like an impostor treating runners. But I I remember like after college, a lot of my identity was, oh, I'm a runner and now I'm injured all the time. So am I actually a runner anymore? So I think that was actually a really challenging time to kinda figure out who I was. And I wanna work with runners, but am I qualified to work with runners if I'm injured? Yeah. And so I think it was like an interesting kinda transition time. Jimmy: Do you feel like in a way it's like a blessing though? Because now you get that side of the experience? Nicole: Yeah. It's definitely been a full circle. Like I if you would ask I mean, I think even my college teammates would be like, you know, it's very much a full circle. Did I ever think that as a 35 year old, I'd be racing marathons when I was an 800 in high school? There's just no way. And it's been really fun to see kinda like grow through that and and really see what your body can achieve when you're consistent and healthy and and training appropriately for your specific needs. Jimmy: Yeah. No. That's awesome. So as you were, yeah, as you're getting more involved earlier in your career with the writing community, and becoming, like, yeah, just getting yourself into the community, as well as giving back to the community with your workshops and stuff. Did you start to see certain things that you felt like everyone could benefit? Were there like common themes you were talking to them about with the workshops and things like that? Nicole: Yeah. Definitely. I I I'm feel very strongly that kind of physical therapy often ends before the person is really back to to their full capacity or full full potential. And so it's like, hey. You you got to the activation phase, but we never really moved to the strength phase in traditional physical therapy models. And I had quite a few patients that were they wanna hang on longer than maybe they because we're kind of a hybrid insurance cash base. Jimmy: Yeah. That's right. I was proud to bring that up because it's like everything you've said so far makes me think this is a cash pay clinic and, yeah, you get this freedom to do a lot of the things you said because you're cash pay. But, yeah, in fact, you're you're a hybrid clinic. So you do take some insurances. Yeah. Nicole: Yeah. And so I think the the challenge was like, okay. How do I get all these young athletes that are part of the you know, San Francisco, it's twenty to forty year old weekend warriors mostly. Those are kinda like our patient population being downtown. And it was so I had more and more people asking questions about how to do strength training. And so I had five girls that were all interested in learning. And so I decided, you know, it's like I'm asking them questions like, what do you think would be helpful? Should we start a group class? And I think one of them came up with the idea. And then I was like, okay. If we can get a few more people, like, I'll make it happen. Let's figure something out here. And so and so, yeah, I kind of wanted to create more of a cash based model that was specific for runners that provided value. Like, what for me as a runner, like, what do I value? What do I want out of a strength program? And then I tried to develop it based on that. And so I think so I built this strength program last year, and I really wanted it to be evidence based because we're physical therapists. And I I don't want this to just be a generic strength program. I really wanna see what how someone progresses through a program. I had never built a true strength program before. So it was also for me as the clinician to be like, okay. How's this how's this working? So I had five gals that were interested in doing this program. I said, okay. I've I've never really done this before, so let's make it happen and we'll see how it goes. And then I'd love your feedback for future future programs. And so I kinda dug through the research and I wanted I really wanted adaptive measures to look at for the first week and then the end of the session and just so I could see, okay, does this program work? And so Jimmy: Spoken like a like a true physical therapist. We need our our objective data. Yeah. Before you get into that True. So it sounds like you you through being curious and asking questions, it sounds like just genuinely curious, like you said, asking patients, like, what do you need, or what do you think is missing? What do you need? You saw this this gap where maybe runners needed the strength training, we're discharging patients before we get them like as strong as we need to, or maybe a little bit early. And so you heard them, you saw this problem, and then you try to come up with your own solution to fill that gap. And for you, yeah, so that looked like an eleventh week strength training program with this cohort of women. What was the original goal? Like at the end of the program, what were you trying to achieve? Nicole: I would say, like, number one, community. Number two, progress. Like, so we looked at I've switched up the pretest a couple times now, but we looked at quad strength using, like, the TIN deck. We looked at glute med, glute max using the active five, which is like a handheld dynamometer. We did plyometric testing. I did, like, a functional movement screen kind of test, and then we put them on the treadmill and did a run easy test. And I really just wanted to see throughout the program what metrics changed, what was, the percent change. And you know, for the first program I really looked at their initial tests, and then I built out the program based on what were the weaknesses of the group. Jimmy: Yeah. So you took you took all the data from the the objective measure you just you just mentioned. Found like common weak weaknesses or weak links, and then tailored the strength around that. Nicole: Yep. Jimmy: Yeah. Nicole: And I think like the one of the hardest things now that I've noticed is just plyometrics in general was is super challenging. And so every session, you know, the research does show that plyometrics, you know, doing them one to three times a week for six to eight weeks can really impact your mechanical efficiency. And so I I was like, okay. We have research that shows this. We're gonna implement it into this program and let's see let's see what happens. Jimmy: Yeah. And was this what did the so it was it was eleven weeks, is that right? Nicole: It's eleven weeks but then it's it's really ten weeks of training and the eleventh week is post testing. Jimmy: And then during the week, is it how many sessions per week? What does that look like? Nicole: So originally, it was once a week in person and then I give them a second workout that they do on their own. Jimmy: K. Cool. Nicole: And then now we kinda have different models where you can come in for the pre and post test and do all the workouts on your own. Or you can come in twice a week and do both sessions in person. The most popular is we do once a week in person, once a week on their own. Jimmy: Awesome. Yeah. Nicole: Yeah. Jimmy: And then, alright. So tell me about that first cohort and what happened with them. Nicole: So the first so first of all, I think I'm just like so proud of this group of gals because they were so consistent. Everyone was like so motivated and they were really on top of it. So, you know, we do the pretest. I build out you know, each week, I'm kinda like building out these exercises for them. And I really wanted, especially for females, but runners in general, I really wanted to emphasize true strength. And so we're thinking, like, high load, eighty percent one rep max as part of their workout. And then each week, I kinda was like, okay. Day one is anterior chain, day two, posterior chain. And I'm kind of making each workout specific for what you would need for running. So I I really wanted it to be specific to the athletes, but also specific to the sport and then specific to, you know, what we need as runners. So it's like true strength. So we're loading appropriately. Then we did their post test, and they did amazing. It was incredible. I, like, literally cried when we got the results because every single one of them made huge improvements. Yeah. It was so much fun. It was just like a different way to apply my knowledge as a physical therapist, my knowledge as a runner to a group setting, and it was great. And from there, it just got kinda naturally expanded. So it was, you know, five girls, the first the first cohort, and then the second, we're like, okay. Let's open up a second day, and then it's 10 people. Jimmy: Then I Nicole: ended up the third day, and we have 15 people. And now we're at 30 people. So it's kinda been fun to just slowly see it build, and and then the community kinda grows around it, you know? Jimmy: I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, Runeasi. Runeasi is a running and jumping analysis tool that helps provide objective data on things like impact loading, dynamic stability, and symmetry. I've been using it in the clinic for the past three years and I love how easy it is to add to my evaluations. Not only that, but it backs up my clinical reasoning and helps me with my decision making process when I'm doing exercise prescription. So if you're a physical therapist or running coach, head on over to runeasy.ai, book a demo. You're If lucky, it will be with me. Jimmy: Going back for a second to the retest at the end of that first group, where did you see, like, their biggest improvements? So of all those objective tests that you did, where'd you see, like, the biggest improvements? Nicole: I'm like, I need to think back. I definitely remember the plyometrics being something that stuck out in my mind as being like, that was something that was way more challenging than I than I had anticipated. I think the cool thing also was the running analysis seemed to improve quite a bit for people. So I was like, that's that's cool to me because it's kind of encompassing everything. And so we're looking at you know, I have them hold up their signs of this is your pretest day and this is your post test on like, you're running it run easy score. And so, yeah, it's interesting now that we've gone through it a few times. It's not always like everyone's a 100% success. It's someone had a race in the middle of the training block, so they kind of are maintaining instead of building this block. And, or someone was sick in the you know, things pop up. But it's kinda fun to know that all these things we see in the research can be applied to to these runners, and it can make a huge difference in their performance. Jimmy: Yeah. And then how about how so with the test retest and like giving that objective data, showing them, hey, here's your running score pre pre strength training, here's post. How did you see that, like, impact each client, like, individually, like, psychologically? Was it, like, huge win buy in for them? Like, what yeah. What did that look like? Nicole: Yeah. It's it's a huge buy in. I mean, I think the program for me as an athlete, as a runner, I wanna I wanna know my hard work is paying off. And so I think for them to actually it it also just sets this program apart from just a generic trainer. Jimmy: Whatever next trainer is like, yeah, how do you, like, in my my practice here down the street, like literally the next corner is a big gym. They do all the group training similar. Yeah. They're not doing objective testing, they're not doing a gait analysis pre and post. You're using this as a way to like set yourself apart, distinguish yourself with your PT knowledge. Do you think like, again, and like going back to impostor syndrome, because I think some PTs are really hesitant to like branch out and like kinda do this, even though I feel like we're, like you said, we're in a really good spot to do it. We have training in anatomy, physiology, exercise prescription. Yeah. So do you I guess the first question I have is do you see like or did you experience personally resistance with that or with some of your colleagues or anything? Nicole: That's a that's a great question. So the RuneU has five clinics, and we've now expanded this program to three of our five clinics. And for me, I it's like you practice what you preach. Like, I've been doing these exercises for the last, you know, years, and I'm I'm living this lifestyle. So for me, it's I've seen firsthand the value of it. And so it's easier for me to just explain to, you know, to jump right in. Whereas now that I'm trying to expand it to other offices and other, you know, PTs leading this, I think it is scarier. And I think really living the life and kinda like you doing it yourself is gonna make the biggest difference in building your confidence with this. And so I would encourage people. It doesn't have to be running. It it can be anything that you're just passionate about. Like, we we also have a pelvic team at at my company, and we're starting to build out pelvic programming with a similar model. So it doesn't necessarily need to be with runners if that's not something you're passionate about. You could make the same program for bikers, you know, so or skimmers or overhead athletes. So I think finding something that you're passionate about and not being afraid to to ask your current clients what they think would be they'd be interested in will help minimize the fear going into it. Jimmy: Yeah. I think that's good advice. And yeah, when you learn when when it's something you're already doing personally, it's way you're gonna it's gonna show when you're teaching people, when you're trying to educate them too. So maybe it's it's good to lean into your strengths, yeah. When you looked at starting this, you could have done like one on one sessions, but you chose group sessions. What made you choose like the group model versus one on one? Nicole: I so I think this is maybe an example of just kinda like leaning on your community. I have one of my closest friends from PT school is works in Colorado. And she's a physical therapist but works at a woman owned gym. And it's kinda like this boutique gym. And I I had a really long talk with her when I was thinking about building this program. And they do a very similar model where it's this community where you have cohorts and you're kinda like in a group together going through this. And I loved that. I think the it having like one on one attention in a group setting where you're working out with your friends. Like, early on in the pandemic, the other PTs and I would, you know, every night we would do our little workout together and we'd make it a little circuit. And it was so fun and made it made it easy to stay consistent when you have a group with you. And so I wanted to feel like, okay. This is a small group setting. You're getting one on one attention, but you're working out with your friends. And so, yeah. It's it's it's honestly just to make it more fun. Jimmy: Yeah. That's that's true. It's like, my life has dictated that right now, like my my personal training is alone in my basement. And it's like, it gets boring and I miss the community of seeing people. And yeah, I think like, previously I was in Salt Lake, I lived and worked in Salt Lake City, and was a member, and like my business ran out of a big gym there. And the community, when you get a group of people working out together, running together, just doing something physical together, like, it just creates an environment that I feel like opens people up, like you're more vulnerable, you talk about things like, especially men, I feel like you end up talking about things you wouldn't talk about if you're just like drinking coffee with them or something. Yeah. Yes, I do think that's a really cool model. And now, you've seen it kinda take off and it's become what sounds like a staple in the business now. Is that right? Nicole: Yeah. It's been fun. We're we're just about to kick off our fifth block. So, I think I started it in April. So, yeah. It's been full circle. Yeah. Jimmy: Yeah. And then how has how has the running community there responded to it? Are they are you seeing like people talking about it? Nicole: Yeah. I mean, I I think I probably should do more marketing for it, but it's been filling up so I haven't had to do too much. But, but, yeah, I I definitely have more and more people reaching out or, you know, you'll find people it started with just one run club, and now it's like, oh, we have members from multiple run clubs coming in. And so there's kinda like cross over between different communities, which I think has also also been fun. And, yeah, I think there's there's a lot of value in just asking people what they want. And then if you build it, they they will come. Jimmy: Yeah. No. I love it. And then, are you you guys are still, like I see stuff on your Instagram, I feel like all the time, where you're you're doing events still on top of this stuff. You're still like going to group runs and doing all that. Is that right? Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's fun. I mean, I think it's it's like on Wednesdays. I know I run with Golden Gate Tri Club and I love doing my track workouts with them. And then on Saturdays, I'll run with Marina Run Club. And every once in a while, I run with San Francisco Roadrunners. It's like there's the community is just unmatched. It's it's so great here and everyone's so welcoming. And, yeah, just like what you were saying, it's like when you're running and you connect with people, when you work out with the same group, you're you connect with them, and you hear about their weeks, and, yeah, it's an easy way to to make connection in a world that sometimes doesn't feel like there's connection. Jimmy: Yeah. So if there were you were to talk to a friend, a PT who's interested in like, yeah, growing something like this, what's what's couple things you would some advice you would give them? Nicole: I think just don't be afraid to talk about it with your patients. Like, if you're interested in starting something, start like speaking it out and seeing what people and just this whole program was built on feedback from the athletes that have taken it, and it's it's adjusted each block because of their input. So I think just don't be afraid to ask questions. I really think it's important as PTs to know your value. And I think as we're, you know, what is your hourly rate? I mean, I I don't know if it's happy to talk about the pricing, but I I really think that PTs are so valuable and we undervalue ourselves a lot. So I think when you're building out your programs, just remember your value. And, you know, if people if you're creating something that people are interested in, then make sure you're, you know, getting paid for your time with that because it it is a lot of work. And, yeah, I think have fun with it. Jimmy: I guess breaking up on the value thing. It's it's tricky because at the same time, earlier in the conversation you were talking about giving things away and like giving like doing the workshops, like offering that knowledge to the community. But then when you do create something that's more tangible like this, it's doubled down on it and, yeah, you should get paid for this. Do you mind me asking, yeah, what you guys do charge for it? Nicole: So I've I've increased it. So it's currently $7.49 for the one time a week program. And that's eleven week program, and they're getting the one on one workout. They're they get two workouts a week. We have an app that they use now that we just launched in January. So they have videos, and they can input everything into the app as far as weight. They get direct access to message me whenever they want. So we kinda want, like, a concierge experience where if things pop up, they can ask me or, you know, programming. Like, oh, I have this race coming up. This is my plan. Where should I put my strength workouts in? Or how should I modify my weight with that? And then that's and then the pre and the post test. So so yeah. And I I think with with the free like, the workshops that we do, I think my real big goal with that is I just wanna be top of mind when someone is looking for for a therapist. You know? It's like there's so many physical therapists out there that specialize in different things. And it'd be so awesome if there was a database for, you know, a runner to be matched with a running PT or a, you know, baseball player being matched with a base like a throwing specialist. So I think there's a value in just being top of mind when they do need someone, even if they don't need someone right now. Jimmy: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. You made me think of something. So as you, with the program, how did it, did it have any impact on your physical therapy business? Like, were you, was there a way for you to like leverage that, whether it's like through networking with the group, and getting patients from that, or maybe somebody in the group gets hurt outside of the group, and they need physical therapy? Was there some sort of like, yeah, getting those people to come back into the system? Nicole: Yeah. It's definitely goes both ways. A lot of the people in the program were previous patients, and then a lot of people who are new to the program, so, you know, something pops up and then they come to us as a patient while they're still on the program. And so it it definitely goes both ways. And then the other thing that's fun is, you know, someone comes in as an athlete and then their training partner has an injury and then they come to us. You know? So it's it's just kinda both ways, and word-of-mouth is huge, but Jimmy: Yeah. Alright. Have one last question for you. So if you could go back to you and the little you in in college with your injuries, Or would you tell yourself to do different? Nicole: Interesting. Okay. I think my biggest thing like, I went from running maybe five, maybe 15 max miles a week on, like, a soccer field to running 40 miles a week, and it was just like stress fracture over and over. And so I think fun, you know, not feeling like you have to do what everyone else is doing would have been really good advice. Like, you know, the whole team is running this, but your background is soccer and not cross country. And so let's take a step back and kinda build you up a little bit your freshman year. You know? Like, let's use this year to really build you up. So I think not being afraid to really be specific with my own training based on my one history and my anatomy. I think physical therapists are really good at that overall. And then I think strength training. I love it. And it doesn't have to be crazy. It's really thirty minutes twice a week is can be enough. And so just kinda cross training for me has been so valuable, and I I wish I understood that earlier. Jimmy: Yeah. Alright. I'm live. One more question. So because you brought that up, strength training, you would tell yourself to strength train. If we dig into that, yeah, give give the listeners a sample of like what a session, this thirty minute session, what would it look like? Nicole: So I'd probably do some sort of activation. So I'll do like some sort of core or something. But I I'll do it mostly. Like, don't like lying down and doing it. I'll do it like a kneeling anterior oblique sling exercise or I'll do like palate presses. And then for me, I'm pretty stiff overall, so I like to do kinda dynamic stuff. So I'll do, like, a three d lunge matrix, kinda like, you know, 10 each direction, and then I might do, like, a rotational cable push pull. And then I'll go into my circuit. Am I, like, more of a strength circuit That could look like farmer's carries. That I do a lot of step ups. I do a lot of kinda like hip airplanes like Bulgarian lunge, I'm really focusing on loading or single leg RDLs. And then if I'm so that'd be like, I'm currently training for the Boston Marathon, so I'm gonna have a little bit lighter, more dynamic movement stuff. And then, you know, after this marathon, I'll take a couple weeks off, and then I'll do kind of a true strength build where I'll think a little bit heavier. And then I'll kinda get more into, like, deadlift, squat mechanics, but kinda really load up my my tissues a little bit more for a month to six weeks and then kinda just maintain my mileage. So that's like another point is for me, in particular, really thinking about my year in seasons as opposed to just training hard all the time makes a huge difference for me. It helps break up. Similar to the strength training blocks, it really just helps me break up my year so that, yeah, I really have focuses at different times of the year. I think a lot of runners are just doing a race every month and you're kinda doing them for fun. But for me, it works really well to to really focus on the seasons and have goals. Jimmy: Yeah. Love it. Alright. Everyone go try that program. Yeah. And then Nicole: One thing, one of my other really favorite exercises. This is from Chris Johnson. I love my runner. I love my calf raises. I've been doing so many calf raises this past, I don't know, three or four months, and it's been a game changer. So, so, yeah, I took Chris Johnson's course a few months ago and he gave me some exercises and they've been great. Jimmy: That's awesome. Yeah. We all love Chris Johnson, so good good shouting him out. Alright. Is there anything else like you're excited about working on next? Anything else coming up Or is this the big thing? Nicole: I think this is the big thing and just kinda getting our virtual program going a bit more. So we've been doing a lot of in person, but I'm super excited. We developed this app this past few months and just trying to get the word out there. If anyone wants to do it virtually, they can do it now too. So kind of a fun option. Jimmy: Awesome. Yeah. So I love the passion, the excitement that you bring to your clinic there in San Francisco. For anybody listening, whether it's a patient or a PT, where could they find you, and how can they learn more about what you're doing? Nicole: You're welcome to follow me on Instagram. So that'd be at doctordrnicole.dpt. Or you can find me at renew physical therapy. So you can message you can probably DM me on my Instagram. But then if you wanna make an appointment, you can contact the clinic. Jimmy: Awesome. Yeah. And we'll put we'll put those links in the show notes for sure. Nicole, it's been great chatting with you. Really exciting to hear the community that you've got involved with, and what you're building there. You've inspired me, maybe I'll start a little strength training program here in Virginia. We'll see. But, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming on. Nicole: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Jimmy: That's it for today on the Physio Insights Podcast presented by Runeasi. 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